Moral objections

Is there any moral difference between someone having a moral objection to homosexual behaviour, perhaps religiously based, and someone simply hating queers? No.

The hater needs human beings to despise. It makes him feel better about himself. Many “Christians” who are particularly vocal about homosexuality fall into this group.

If he surrenders his moral objection to gay lovemaking, will he have also to surrender his objection to sex with animals, children, or corpses? No. People over the last fifty years have surrendered their moral objection to black men having sex with white women. However loudly they protested that this was Moral rather than hate-based, we now think such a moral position merely prejudiced.

Also, there is a difference between gay lovemaking and sex with corpses. It unites two people in Love, which is the primary purpose of the sexual act in human beings: we make love when we are infertile, we make love far more than we make babies. Baby-making is essential, but not everyone has to do it. Not every straight woman who has sex has children.

Gay sex is morally objectionable if it is oppressive, just as straight sex is, for example sex with children.

What about the results of gay sex, the spreading of disease? But straight sex spreads disease too. Perhaps unsafe and promiscuous sex might be argued to be morally objectionable on the ground of its outcomes, but not gay sex per se. And, as straight promiscuous sex carries the risk of unwanted pregnancies, straight promiscuous sex is actually more morally objectionable than gay promiscuous sex, from the point of view of outcomes.

What of a Bible-based objection? It is a delusion. It has no moral value. Some of the clobber passages are translated to mean a wider range of behaviour than the original justifies. Others are ridiculous. Gay people an abomination who should be stoned? Well? Should we stone people to death, or not? Idolising the Bible above the needs of human beings, that is the immoral act.


I have no partner at the moment, and I am not thinking of marrying. So why do I believe equal marriage the most important thing for LGBT folk to campaign for? Because it is the strongest symbol, now, of our equality. Because the State will collude in the celebration and support of our relationships on an equal footing with those of straights. Because the haters find it sair to thole, and are campaigning strongly against it. Because greater equality will follow. Because there is no good ground to oppose it, and many Conservative arguments in favour, about helping people be happier, more productive members of society. Because it catches the imagination of straight allies. Because it is simple to achieve and costs nothing- a one line Act of parliament will make it. Because the only people who oppose it are homophobes.

Because it is coming, and coming soon, and we can make it come more quickly.


I went to the top deck of the bus, and then thought, this is the bus the schoolchildren get. Should I go downstairs? I decided not to, though I was the only adult here. After they got on, I heard voices from the back- “That’s a tranny.” “A tranny, there, at the front.” One came forward to have a look, and I smiled at her. They did not bother me particularly. They are good kids round here.

That is my main argument for work on equal marriage. We need to win equality battles. Any equality battle won makes all our lives better. This is one we can win.

16 thoughts on “Moral objections

  1. Well said. Unity of two people in which ever form they chose to declare their love and commitment for each other should and must be free.

    All the Best!


    • It is indeed a moral issue. “It is not good for a man to be alone.” “If two lie together, they are warm- but how can one be warm alone?” Biblical morality is in favour of our marriages, and support for the stability of our relationships.

      Thank you for commenting.


  2. I am not a hater. My sister is a lesbian and has just recently come out and our relatives seem to have been accepting that fact about her little by little.

    I am not a hater. I have gay and lesbian friends and I enjoy their company. No dull moment ever.

    I don’t know any trannies, at least not personally, but I don’t hate em.

    It’s sad that some individuals who call themselves Christians act hatefully towards homosexuals. I am a part of a Christian community. Three months, still a baby Christian. I am aware that homosexuality is a sensitive topic in this Bible-bound community and yet my mentors have assured me that our community is one that loves ‘people’ in the gay community.


    • Addie, welcome, and thank you for commenting. I had a wee look at Betwixt and Between and you seem a lovely person. I hope you find joy and fellowship in the service of Christ.

      What I am saying is that I see no moral difference between the person who physically attacks gay people because he perceives them to be gay, and the person who campaigns against legal rights for gay people, or the person who says that gay lovemaking is always sinful, however much that person protests they love the gay person. “Love the sinner, abhor the sin,” absolutely, but if a preacher takes particular interest in homosexual “sins” I find him suspect. All are Oppressors. All are Persecutors. I am not interested in their “moral” or Biblical arguments.

      I use the word “tranny” myself, but it is a bit like the N word. For outsiders, it is more respectful to use the phrase trans woman or trans man.

      May your Christianity bless you, and those you meet. And- if your church’s sensitivities come up- Do not betray your sister.


  3. Playing Devil’s Advocate, what about seperating the rights and priveleges that come with marriage from marriage all together? Some folks argue that marriage is an inherently discriminatory system and to allow gay marriage would then allow only a few more folks to benefit from that discriminatory system but not create true equality.
    I don’t have an answer, I’m just curious what your thoughts are. Cheers!


    • I Do have the answer! Yay!

      That is the only gay argument I know against equal marriage, and for me it is a choice. Once there is equal marriage, no-one is forced to get married. As a matter of public policy, law may give protection to members of cohabiting couples on their separation- so the law can force cohabiting couples to be like married couples; law could even create a time-limited marriage, like postulant vows, only lasting a set time. In Britain, two people living together “as” a couple- straight or gay- have means-tested benefits paid to them like a couple, which means less than they would get as two individuals. Whatever variations in legal recognition of relationships, there is no argument for treating gay couples differently.

      People in couples are different from single people. I have no idea how law could reduce the effects of that difference.


      • I have nothing terribly smart to add to this dialogue, I just want to say–what a smart answer and great information in this reply here, Clare. Marriage versus Wedding versus Legal Rights; there are so many values tied up in each aspect–love can’t be “legalized”. Love expands, laws contract. My mother and daughter have rights to make medical decisions, manage my belongings and money, etc, if I am unable…not unlike a marriage partner; since I never intend to marry (again). As a feminist I inherently disagree with the concept of marriage, but fully support marriage equality. Perhaps the system will change slowly as it is redefined in discussions like these.


      • Thank you. They are of course two different issues. How should the law regulate relationships? No idea. Should there be different regulations for straight couples and gay couples? No. I do like the idea of legal recognition of couples, it seems to go with those relationships lasting longer: perhaps the law is a support of the relationship.

        And- the problem is Kyriarchy. A move towards equality for gay people is a move towards equality for all.


  4. well written and I so agree. In speaking with my dad the other day, I found out he is against gay marriage. he then made a racial slur about the president, because I said if federal law mandates it, state law can’t stop gay marriages. I didn’t argue with him, because I won’t change his mind. He is my dad, and I love him, but I don’t have to like what he stands for. He is so set in his ways.
    My parents are divorced and my mom is so the opposite of my dad. She told me that the younger generation is much more accepting of homosexuals and she sees gay marriage coming at some point. She said the younger generation just won’t tolerate it this attitude.
    My son, who is 16, recently asked me why people can’t be more tolerant. We were watching the news and the story was about people being so upset about a Target AD having two men as parents. My son is very accepting of my relationship with my partner and considers her his stepmom. I am lucky in that!
    I think gay marriage will come one day….just when and how many will get hurt in the process? I hope not many.


    • You fell in love, and now you are with your partner. What right anyone imagines he has to object to that, I cannot comprehend. And there is no reason to treat your love differently from any other person’s.

      What we do is speak to people without hiding, and show that we are not monsters. The rest will follow.

      Thank you for commenting. That is a way we can encourage each other.


      • yes, we can encourage each other. I love my woman so much, much more than I ever loved the father of my children. I loved him and it was good for a bit, but I know deep in my heart that this is who I am supposed to be. I am happy for the first time, because I am living my life the way I want to. I just didn’t know how to recognize the feelings I had when I was younger.


  5. Oh I agree, we are not wrong. I think when I was a teen and young adult, I didn’t know HOW I felt, or how to recognize what I felt. I know now that I have always been gay, but didn’t see it in myself until I was much older.


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