I am a “Real woman”

I am a real woman, entitled to be in women’s space. I have been paying too much attention to TERFs, but here is Tigtog, who is cis and feminist. She argues that people can have a gender identity discordant with biological sex. Because of that, I should be accepted as a real woman.

After reading and thinking about this, my headline may be premature. Tigtog was dealing with a particular TERF argument. I am well behind the conversation, as Tigtog’s post was written before I started blogging, and the trans spectrum comes up- from only post operative trans women, living permanently as women, to every AMAB person who ever tried on a skirt- not all those people are necessarily included. I need to do more work, and more reading, but this is as far as I have got now.

The argument is an ideology. The liberal position that anyone AMAB who wants to wear skirts, or to have a vaginoplasty, should be able to, does not mean that feminists should call that person a woman, admit us to women’s spaces, or take notice of our issues. But that ideology does not have to convince every single person determined to refuse it, only the majority. I have been accepted in women’s space, as well as rejected.

The basis of it is that gender identity makes me a woman. Is that idea feminist, or destructive of feminism? The basis of feminism is that sex or gender should not restrict life choices, and is not a reason for judgment: being unfeminine is not wrong. Feminists observe that women have been restricted, not voting, going to University, or owning property, and are still restricted: women as a whole earn around three fifths the earnings of men as a whole in the UK. Caring for children, old or disabled people is seen as women’s work, and unvalued. Equality would liberate the gifts of everyone for the good of all, but how to pursue it?

Feminism rejects hierarchies of race, gender and class and asserts our equal value. The hierarchies of patriarchy are socially constructed. The sole physical difference is sexual dimorphism. The gender binary is constructed on that, and can be changed.

I call myself Abigail. I accept the social construct of gender in how I dress so that I can express my innate femininity in how I wish to relate to other people. The two go together for me. I would like my ways of relating to be valued more highly. This subverts the gender binary, so supports the feminist project.

Feminists should accept me because I further their interests.

Tigtog writes, Miss Andrea argues that “guys in frocks” are merely buying into gender essentialism, but I don’t see how arguing that only those born with ovaries can ever be regarded as “real” women isn’t doing exactly that. It’s treating gender as inalienably aligned with biological sex, whereas those who have a trans* history are those are saying that their biological sex has not been sufficient on its own to make them feel comfortable in their assigned gender role. That strikes me as the very opposite of biological essentialism; even in cases where a transitioning individual adopts genderised dressing stereotypes, because the whole point of gender being a social construct is that those stereotypes are artificial rather than essential in the first place.

The contempt of TERFs for trans women is phobic. In the comments, Mindy writes, I think my attitude comes down to – there’s a woman in there, what does it matter what package she comes in? I don’t understand the idea that a man would voluntarily choose to live as a woman and give up his rights in the patriarchy simply as a way of getting at women. That idea is irrational, indicating phobia.

Does Gender identity make me a woman? For Mindy, it does.

For me, gender identity is inextricably linked to my femininity, and that might be seen as anti-feminist: people with ovaries should not be judged as wrong- “harridans”, “viragos”- for being unfeminine or restricted to roles fitting feminine people. Possibly, I need to find a feminism valuing femininity. Is that what the third wave is about?

It is a paradox. Trans women affirm gender stereotypes: we assert femininity is female. We subvert gender stereotypes: we reject our upbringing to express our true selves.

Anyone who knows more than me about this, and has the spare time to educate me, is welcome to comment.

El Greco, Annunciation

66 thoughts on “I am a “Real woman”

  1. I think the feminism argument is a crock of shit. Here’s why.

    Feminists argue “Go girls, be you!” but in the same sentence will tell you to express your feminine side and therefore passive aggressively tell you not to be you. The modern feminist movement has gone from empowering females, to proving an agenda.

    I personally think if you feel like a woman, be a woman. Whatever gender identity is to you, rock it! Society has to put their two cents into everything lately. If you want to do something, do it. If they don’t like it, they can look the other way. Too many hurt feelings and not enough acceptance.

    This comment probably is not what you wanted, but it’s simply how I feel. I hope it does you some good. Nice post overall! It’s definitely a discussion starter.

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    • Thank you. It is lovely to see you here again. How do you feel is what I ask.

      The post is a discussion starter because I am ambivalent about it. I am clear that I can express myself as I like, and that is an example to liberate others. It hurts no-one; but thank you for the affirmation. I feel feminism has wildly different, possibly irreconcilable strains atm. Express your feminine side if that is what fulfils you. Older constraining ways pushed women into a particular kind of femininity, and feminism should liberate anyone from that if it does not fit them. Possibly, each of us seeing our own constraints wants a feminism to attack those constraints, far more than the constraints affecting other women.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Hey there spreading crazy smiles… Feminism only has that agenda you speak of, if you frame it like that. It’s not one thing. Like christians include catholics and methodists or mormons, etc. feminists divide according to geographic and cultural histories too. The basic premise is equity now. To own our body and keep our reproductive rights and hey, maybe one day even get equal pay. Empowering women never stopped. The backlash against feminism has grown so you calling it a crock of shit dismisses women’s history and that’s dangerous.

      I’m all in for supporting the author in being a feminist and still dressing or expressing “girly” or “feminine” as part of that revolution-evolution as an individual. (and I’m new to this blog so apologies if jumping into your conversation is rude).

      I’m a feminist. I’m not a passive aggressive crock of shit. Not that I took that personal, just saying generalizations like that aren’t helpful… because they aren’t true. It just shows you’re not talking to the right ladies. 🙂

      Liked by 1 person

      • Welcome, Tabby. I am delighted you have commented, because it meant I visited your blog and discovered your rich, dense, beautiful prose: and he told you, remember how you knew that girl who stole all the granola from the Seventh Day Adventists because back then you could trust the Daily Grind? And how she spied on your place mats and said the sun with the face was exactly the one she needed for her tattoo design. She told you she’d been searching for it forever and when she asked where could she buy one, you gave it to her, because you got the feeling she was planning to steal it if you didn’t…

        Mmmmm….. Jumping in is OK.

        Also like Christians, what unites feminists is far more important than what divides us.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Thanks so much for the welcome to your blog Clare and for your kind words about my blog.
          I look forward to your insights and unique beautiful voice as I read your blog too. 🙂

          Liked by 1 person

      • I appreciate your opinion and the time you took to respond. The crock of shit I’m referring to, is the Modern Feminist movement, the one that has was all over everything just a year ago.

        There was everything from children cussing to degrading men left and right just to prove a point. Now I understand that the actual feminist movement has done wonders for women, and it’s heinous how we’re paid less than men for the same job, and the miltitude of other infractions that happen against a woman simply for the fact she doesn’t have a penis.

        However here’s some fucked up facts they don’t tell you:
        Did you know recently that they’ve been accepting women over men in Universities and Government jobs as of late, simply because their women? They’re trying to have diversity in those certain areas. So your grades or resume don’t need to be here, just show up with boobs.

        Men who are raped or experience domestic assault have NO WHERE to go. Even if they do, who will take them seriously? Think about that. Men are supposed to be strong, that doesn’t happen to them.

        The point I am trying to make here is this, I’m for equality overall. I think everyone should have the same rights and privileges as the other. I don’t think we need to change who we are to fit ideals and I have seen the wrong group of ladies I suppose, because as you can tell, I’m a little upset about what I have seen.

        Not at you or anything, I know that’s probably how it’s coming across, but please take no offense at what I said, none of it was meant towards you in a derogatory way.

        Liked by 1 person

        • I intervene here: I note that two women a week are murdered by a partner or former partner in Britain. Men tend to be larger, stronger and more violent than women; and female violence against men is serious, and not always taken seriously: I googled for women kill men in an attempt to find statistics, and google produced sexualised images. That was a serious WTF moment.

          I feel that people can get emotional about these issues. However, campaigners are entitled to choose their issues. Male violence against women is not made less serious by the fact of female violence against men. In England and Wales, there are twice as many female victims of domestic violence.

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          • It’s the same here and I’m not arguing that point at all. It deserves to be seen and heard, discussed and resolved. If that was the point I came off with, by all means I apologize, that wasn’t what I wanted to come off with.

            The point here is, is that nobody deserves to be beat on, or assaulted in any way, and the statistics for male vs female is higher practically everywhere, does that mean it can’t happen to men? Where’s their help? That’s my point.

            And yes, that is a WTF moment for me too.

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            • It is very easy to get emotional about these issues. I met a woman who killed her former partner. When she dumped him, he would not accept that; and when she killed him, he had broken into her house and come into her bedroom at night to rape her. She was on remand in prison for over a year, before her trial at which her account of the facts was accepted. One in five women in England and Wales over 16 has suffered sexual assault. Sober, practical responses are required.

              Liked by 1 person

        • Hey there spreadingcrazysmiles,
          I’m all for affirmative action. So when you say did I realize “they” are accepting more women in university etc. yes, I am aware that they are finally making these predominantly patriarchal and white supremacist institutions more equitable and that cis men are experiencing a feeling being discriminated against which is causing a backlash. I know there is a higher suicide rate among males and they are expressing feelings of women being luckier for their ability to bond through oppression and form support groups… This means that men who have always had the most room for their voices and priorities and work, are now demanding consideration over women after causing the oppression to themselves and others in the first place.

          There are many layers. I believe if you investigate further you will find many merits in the modern day feminist movements that delve into history and contemporary issues.

          I’m encountering feminists who are cruel to trans gender peoples and this made me go to battle with feminists and what feminism is as well as the black lives matter movement has helped me understand how feminism was began ultimately by black women (black lives matter specifically by LGBT women) and yet white cis feminists don’t represent them, so many do not identify as feminists… and this has sharpened my sensibilities to not get rid of feminism but to expand on it. I don’t “fit in” to any of these groups entirely, but I have common ground with them.

          I appreciate you explaining what you have encountered that bugs you, so I can figure out where those problems/barriers exist for you too. I’m not anti-men… but I’m very pro-sisterhood. Thanks for taking time too. 🙂

          Tabby

          Liked by 2 people

          • I’m pro-everybody. I can appreciate your pro-sisterhood attitude however, and thank you for the enlightenment, I was ignorant to a lot of those facts. I appreciate the time you took to type out all of that, instead of lashing back, it’s appreciated. No one should be ugly to anybody, and that includes those who fall into the transgender category. If they feel like their women, than their women. We all want to be accepted, but the conundrum here, is we fail to accept those who don’t fall into our paradigm of accepted ideas.

            It’s a shame really.

            Liked by 2 people

            • I’m not above cussing people out, and I think I can be pretty harsh in my warrior princess mode (I’m a Xena fan)…although I don’t seek that. I’m like defense against attack, but I don’t like to be a bi-stander… so sometimes I’m just in the middle of things. I don’t like bullies. But then I have to curb my own inner bully because I think I have one… if I’m not careful…

              Anyhow, there was no need to lash out at you! I like your spreading crazy smiles “name” and I agree people know themselves better than anyone else so can tell us how they identify and if and when that changes we should support the transformation of a butterfly. (so to speak)
              Thanks for the assist on opening the paradigm and protesting shame. You rock. keep spreading those crazy smiles, you. 🙂

              Liked by 2 people

            • Well thank you, I try. I think we all have that person inside of us. I’ve got a hell of a temper, but my firm believe is that it does absolutely no good on a computer. What am I gonna do, caps lock you to death? xD

              I will. I checked out your blog, and really liked what I saw. I followed. Can’t wait to read more.

              Liked by 2 people

            • Hey thanks… I’ll come by yours sometime soon too to see what you’re up to. 🙂 It’s nice meeting you here.

              I kinda dig the sisters with “hell-a tempers” but I agree not for gratuitous or intentionally mean purposes. And really I prefer the more balanced and grounded connections that can be made for any possibility of actual growth/learning/healing and not just “vent-rant” stuff. So thanks for keeping it real.
              xo,
              Tabby

              Liked by 2 people

    • Hi Amanda and Clare…

      so, Amanda… after I read your offensive post about black people deserving to get shot at the mall of america and your pity for the cops stance (more or less) I dropped you. I realize your writing was sloppy and you’re not that “educated” so it came out all wrong… and you didn’t mean it completely like it sounded and that you don’t understand the nuances of black lives matters because you don’t really know that many black people, and I understand your fear.

      In a different post Clare went to a therapist to confess her feelings about the “disgusting parasites” referring to BME (black minority ethnicity) in the UK and how they were all going to end up thieves or something. Basically criminalizing poor people. Feelings aren’t facts and this a wonderful time for her to address her own prejudices and change for the better is what I think she intended, but she came off very racist and discriminatory and out of touch never the less. (And thank you very much we don’t want your charity or what you got rich person!!!)

      Now I’m back here commenting because I saw you Amanda like buttoning Vanessa’s blog. You don’t like her. You’re there to judge. I read on your blog how you believe and advised people to avoid the appearance of evil basically. You don’t talk about the divorces or the stuff going on because then everyone judges you when you fail their version of success. Vanessa’s blog is about sincerity and honesty and healing. So if you show up there it automatically makes me sense a rival. If you fuck with her, (as she is black and Latina, and came from no money) I will make YOU my personal business.

      My people are black, latino, asian… LGBTQ and some don’t have money. I initially came here to make bridges with you both, regarding feminism as well as support a sister in the trans community. I supported you in alcohol recovery Amanda, putting aside our differences. Neither of you has ANY room to throw shade. You don’t come from money Amanda. So meet Clare who feels poor people are parasites. Knows they are not, but feeeeeeeeels they are… It’s sooooo hard to get beyond intellectualizing everything isn’t it Clare, you snob?

      Jesus told me to tell you both, you failed his test.

      I don’t plan on visiting your blogs or speaking to you. I hope you both stay away from my people. Read them ok. But like buttoning is like taking a dump on your hosts floor when it turned out your both a-holes.

      You called yourselves christians and yet you gladly hurt my people. Don’t do it again.

      Liked by 1 person

      • I am sorry to read this.

        I never acted on that stray thought. In that post, I expressed my horror and shame about it. I saw myself as working with people, rather than for them: it was all about explaining options and empowering choice and action, but doing those things which I had particular skills for. I don’t know where the idea about “becoming thieves” came from, I never said or thought anything like that. The thought was in the nineties: I have moved on from that. The point of sharing it was to express how angry thought shames my friend, who is lovely and thinks herself bad because of the angry monologue in her thoughts. Actions matter. I am not ashamed of my actions.

        I won’t come back to your blog if you want, but feel that is a shame. Go well.

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        • Yeah, it’s not going to work out, Clare, I’m sorry for bugging you ever. Thanks for clarifying the post… But I don’t feel sorry for rich people who relate this way to charity this way.

          I don’t dig Amanda so I leave you both to your own stuff. Thanks for letting me tell her off here.

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          • Perhaps I am not writing clearly. I was not hoping anyone would feel sorry for me. I don’t think my friend and I are alone in having such angry thoughts, and she would never act on them. They perplex her. They make her feel she is a bad person. My purpose was to name the shame, so reduce it; because the thought is not shameful, only the act.

            Relating to charity: by working for a fairly low salary, and at times volunteering, and gaining £2m for clients? You find this objectionable how? And what makes you believe I am rich?

            I may delete the comments, I have not decided yet, but now I am processing your reaction. It seems an over-reaction to me. Before rebuking someone, I get clear on the facts.

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            • Delete them Clare, that’s okay. I see you are well meaning here now, but Your post wasn’t written so well. It caused shame and confusion for all.

              I respect your need to delete the confusion and make a fresh start.

              I hold no ill will towards you. And I don’t want to cause you harm.

              Over-reactions on line? Hmmmm omg, clare. How about we push someone to suicide and say, “well they took it wrong and not my problem… just love yourself and be your own warmth and need no one.”

              I get there was confusion.

              Overreacting is not happening.

              You’re not a good listener either. So let’s stop with the defensive bullshit on all of parts and let go.

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            • Thank you for commenting further.

              “Push someone to suicide”? What? Where on Earth do you get that from?

              I honestly don’t mind being patronised in comments. It says more about you than about me. I find you interesting as a specimen: write more, do.

              I tend to prefer defensive bullshit: I point out where you are wrong, you concede ground. Indeed I am well meaning. Your personal attacks will not wind me up, but you need a particularly forbearing interlocutor to communicate anything at all beyond your own feelings.

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            • I had a friend who literally freaked out thinking you were calling him a BME and a disgusting parasite. He had at first thought he could relate to you and then he read that and he went into a shock. It triggered stuff, Clare. But he’s okay, he realizes it was his PTSD and doesn’t hold you responsible. He didn’t know what a BME was and learned a lot from the experience. He refuses to be insulted by anyone, but my friends and I all got mad at you… (yes I know you wrote it to stop the shame and you think we all overreacted)

              I should have explained that part about the suicide better and not left you hanging. Sorry for that.

              I actually thought you were being okay in parting ways and not too defensive but this is all making you more so.

              Which doesn’t say “more about me” sweetie. It says more about all of us. That we are easily hurt by the world, trying to relate to it and also capable of creating confusion and misunderstandings before we extend any true love or real compassion for each other… which makes matters worse not better and as if no attempt had been made at all (for the lack of enlightenment all round)

              I’m not the larger mirror or problem, but you can say that if it makes you feel better. lick your wounds for all I care. I do the same thing from time to time.

              I’m not attacking you. Just feels that way.

              I let Amanda know to stop “liking” a blog she showed up on which is one of my sacred spaces, because her showing up there is a form of following me… and she found it because of me. I know this. So I came back here to say don’t follow me.

              You are both feeling attacked.

              Me and mine were feeling attacked.

              I’m agreeing to stop. I let you off the hook for fairness in clarification and because this is your space a while ago. I can stand by that. You don’t really bother me, so much.

              I let amanda go as a lesson learned.

              So is there any more problems?

              I am sorry for causing you distress. I came here with entirely different intentions and all for the good, but I blew it because I realize I don’t like christians and I can’t make that change. that’s on me. I totally made the mistake trying to get along with you both… and now I want it to end as much as you do.

              okay?

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            • BME. I thought it was “British Minority Ethnic” but apparently “Black and Minority Ethnic”. It is intended as a non-prejudicial term. This is why I intellectualise: because I write of strong emotion, and intellectualising creates distance.

              I am not feeling attacked or distressed, particularly. I read “Unique beautiful voice” and- to SCS- “You rock”; after what had seemed a confrontation. So I was perplexed by this further interaction. I feel no need to defend myself from anything- think I am a snob if you like- but seeking understanding. I am sorry for the PTSD.

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            • Thanks for seeking the understanding and I appreciate you apologizing for how it made him feel/trigger. I’ll pass it on.

              The BME actually strikes some people as a racist “profiling” tag in and of itself but I realize the organization is intended to help. We were reading the different debates after researching the term and after the initial reaction to your post.

              I see the perplexing comments happened in part by cross relating Amanda’s posts with yours and lumping my responses too briefly here. I think this occurred as you were both already in relation to one another.

              The further reaction came about when Amanda showed up on the blog I referred to. I wasn’t going to bother with this, but she was there… on sacred ground… and I raced to be protective of my loved ones. she doesn’t belong there, even if she insists it’s her privilege and she can go where she pleases.

              But I don’t feel like smack talking her. I just wanted us to make boundaries.

              I have a friend who said to to be the first to end this discussion now, otherwise it just sets us all up.

              so, delete the thread if you need. keep it if you like.

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            • “In relationship”- SCS had previously commented on two posts of mine, the last in February 2014. I cannot recall now whether I had commented on her blog, I comment on a lot. Not much of a relationship.

              Quick googling finds no reference to use of the term “BME” being seen as racist.

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            • Okay, I get it. It’s more important for you to be right than to admit the label BME profiles and is inherently racist in structure. You want proof. Wow.

              Here are some BME headlines:

              “Keeping our children safe: Raising awareness in black and minority ethnic communities”

              “Supporting your work with children from Black and minority ethnic communities”

              says black not british

              in context of a sentence:

              “Black and minority ethnic families facing similar pressures of family life as other families, it is more likely that some BME families could face extra stress due to poverty, poor housing, unemployment and low income, immigration issues, language difficulty, mental health issues or discrimination.”

              says black not british

              I really don’t feel like proving how you are both being racist anymore. You’re backsliding. Nit picking. You have a degree of racism in you. It’s been pointed out. My links for amanda are vetted by the best. Not me… although I watched and read the book too several times for better understanding. I don’t have the questions you do about it. I’m concerned about it for real not in an intellectual way.

              Good luck.

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            • My apologies, Clare. I know you don’t care. And you’re right. I keep saying I’m leaving. Each time I get a comment from you, I feel you needing a response… so, I won’t make this mistake again.

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      • Um, first of all you don’t know a goddamn thing about me. I’m very much educated, and I’m no racist. I have black friends, one of my best friends is a black man. I went to an ALL BLACK SCHOOL! What I spoke about in that post, was those who COMMITTED CRIMES, or SHOT at the POLICE. Not them all in general. So for talking bad about your people, I’m sorry, but if those types of people are your people than I want no part of you.

        Second of all, I’ll visit any blog I please, and I don’t have any rivalries going on, I don’t care who blogs on here. I enjoy reading their content but I blog for me. This is MY personal healing, and I’m not judging anyone. Yet again, you don’t know me, you got offended and misread a post. A black woman even commented!!!! She agreed with me! So if I hated them, why would I let her comment, or even more so, why would I agree with her and laugh with her? We talk a lot, and we enjoy each others opinions.

        My alcohol recovery is 6 years long. I wrote about it for OTHERS! Yet again, you assume things.

        I don’t speak about divorce, because I don’t know about it, not because I judged anyone. I know it’s expensive, and that if at all possible should be avoided, because I like it when love succeeds, but no judgement.

        What does me having money have to do with this? I’m still confused. I don’t care who has money or not, and I don’t care their opinion. However, these ignorant comments won’t be tolerated and I will stand up for myself.

        As for Clare, I don’t know her that well, but to attack two people because you don’t like their opinions makes you look like the ignorant one, especially when they haven’t done anything wrong.

        I hope you have a good day. Oh, and don’t ever threaten me again. I didn’t do anything to deserve it, but threatening me, means you’re in essence threatening with my children, because they are always with me, and I WON’T take that lightly. You can dislike my content all you wish, but ‘making me your personal business’ will not end well for you. I suggest you leave me alone.

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        • Go scream at some one else. You’re offensive and unremarkable. You said thanks for not lashing out… well look at you now.
          Saying you have black friends is high on the list of what not to say. Everyone white is racist to a degree.

          You’ve been warned and you need to back off, Amanda.

          I don’t like you. There is nothing wrong with that. I’m not asking for a relationship with you online.

          I’m telling you If I see you around my people, I’ll let you have it, publicly.

          You’re the one causing factions.

          Black lives matter doesn’t have to impress you.

          The Future of Race in America: Michelle Alexander at TEDxColumbus

          to read Michelle Alexander’s book The New Jim Crow: The Massive Incarceration System in the Age of Colorblindness free online you can click on the following link: http://communitysuccess.org/sites/default/files/u9/Alexander-The%20New%20Jim%20Crow.PDF

          Transgression in Public Spaces with Arthur Jafa & bell hooks:

          https://serendip.brynmawr.edu/sci_cult/leguin/

          Ursula K. Le Guin gave the following address at the 1986 Bryn Mawr College Commencement. It was first published in a collection of essays, Dancing At The Edge of the World: Thoughts on Words, Women, Places, New York: Harper & Row, 1989 (147-160).

          do your own WORK.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Thanks for the links. First of all, All whites are a little racist? But you make it PERFECTLY clear you’re a racist against whites. You ASSUME because of the color of my skin I have a problem? Sounds like what the BLM movement is fighting against personally. Isn’t that a bad thing?

            I’m not a racist, I don’t like anyone who commits a crime, and then shoots at the police. No matter of the color of their skin, if you do that, you’re gonna get shot. If you listen to the police, you won’t, 9 times out of 10. However, there are those cases that are complete bullshit and the cop deserves prison time, such as in the cases of Tamir Rice, or the Chicago incident as I mentioned.

            I’ll comment anywhere I want to, and if you keep this up, you’ll be the only one looking ignorant. I didn’t scream at you, but I came at the offensive because you came at me that way with insults and threats, you’re damn right!

            You’re going off a post of 2014, okay let me inform you, I haven’t been blogging for the majority of 2015. It might have even been 2013, and that for damn sure I’m not going to remember. I’m not a liar, you’re just looking at things from the past. That’s not my fault I cannot remember what I wrote on 2-3 years ago right off the top of my hand. Also, I didn’t write anything offensive there, or I didn’t try to. I respect everyone and their opinion as long as they respect me and my own. Anyone who knows me, knows that. Hell, I just had an debate about Christianity. They were civil, and I was. It ended well. They didn’t come at me the way you did. It was nice.

            So as for you outing me anywhere you see a comment, you have fun with that. You’re going to be the only one there with a problem, and that’s going to look bad on you, not me. Have fun with that!

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            • Whatever, the links are good and they won’t offend you. Michelle Alexander is very gentle and nurturing about the hard stuff.

              The bell hooks and Arthur Jafa points out the micro-aggressions and transgression we all cause living in a white-supremacist founded country. So it’s long, but really worth listening to as they point out the nuances of what I mean but have no talent for expressing to you.

              All your aggression currently is understandable as I see you only feel attacked and misrepresented. You are showing clear signs of racism, but you’ll need someone you trust to help you not feel the shame and rather make the adjustment. Of course you’d also have to be open to this idea that all whites have a level of it in them… and not take this as a personal attack.

              I’m done arguing with you Amanda. My info is sound and vetted even if my communication with you sucked.

              Liked by 1 person

            • No, I don’t have to be open to an idea of anything because not all whites are racists. Not all blacks are criminals, not all mexicans are illegals, every chinese person doesn’t eat dogs, etc etc. You’re sterotyping me based on the color of my skin. I’m not a racist, and if I am because of ONE post, what about the blacks who are against the BLM? What about them? What about all of the people I converse with of different ethnic backgrounds? Hmm? I am misunderstood, you came at me over one post. One. Not multiples, simply one.

              And another about divorce, which made no sense to me, and it was from Oct 2014.

              I was raised to love everyone, and in my eyes all lives matter, but if you fight a cop and try to harm them because you got caught doing something you shouldn’t, you earn what you get. Color means nothing, a crime is a crime.

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            • You don’t understand the definition of racism.

              I’m not say whites were all born that way Amanda.

              It’s societal conditioning from a world history of colonialism and you aren’t even aware of it. It’s even how black people self-police to not seem so black.

              You were raised to love everyone and yet you don’t. And you don’t have to. You wrote certain “types” deserve what they get and you aren’t willing to consider their backgrounds lovingly. They frighten you I gave you links explaining this, so I won’t have to.

              I really do appreciate you initially attempting to cross our divide. I am not your best teacher because you’re seeking to prove your own theories. You’re not open to the other ones.

              Liked by 1 person

            • I’m open to anything. I understand it’s not their fault, and I mentioned it in the post. It goes back to parenting. Their parents got it from their grandparents and so on and so forth. Everyone learns from their parents, or their environment. It’s fact. You are a product of what you’re around. I was raised with my God Father being a black man, so I knew black people weren’t bad, and that taught me to look into a situation and to look past the beginning of what I see.

              You failed to do that here. You and I both know it. You let your anger cause you to lash at two people before you even knew their why, or what they were truly about. You asked no questions, you assumed how we are, based on what we show. You COULD have asked, but you chose not to.

              Clair is a wonderful person, her opinions and mine don’t mesh a lot of the time, but she’s a decent human being overall. We agree to disagree and move forward. She is a transgender, which I honestly think is brave. I have no desire to do so, but if I did, I’d have a hard time doing it. Whether she had a hard time or not is irrelevant, the fact that she did shows courage.

              You spewed insults about my education level, my friends, my finances, and my upbringing. Let me inform you since you feel so strongly to assume.

              I grew up in Norfolk, Virginia, a predominately black area. I got a scholarship for being white. I went to an all black school for the majority of my education, and got bullied for being white. Most of the friends I did have, were black, because the other white children were in clicks that I just wasn’t interested in. The one white friend I had and still have, is now gay, and I love him as much now as I did then.

              I’m actually well off in finances, I own two vehicles, and am in the process of buying my own home. But I know what it’s like to come from a home where ends were barely met. Ramen and I are no strangers, and neither is heating my house with an oven.

              I was raised around black people, as I stated my God Father was black, and my father taught me to look beyond the skin color and find the person. I was raised to be a strong, but loving person. Thanks Dad.

              I have a college degree thanks to my Intelligence career with the Navy, and I am working on my nursing degree now. I am working for my bachelors, with a goal to have my Masters before I hit 35.

              So there, now that you have a background, you can say what you wish. You’re informed.

              Also, while I am here being informative, my comment about your links was sincere, so the whatever wasn’t necessary. I actually appreciated them, I enjoy seeing others point of view. Once again, the assumption card was played. My blog posts from 2014, were from a very depressed young woman, going through marriage problems of her own and all I wanted was to spread positive energy. That post on divorce, was a pep talk for myself. Since you wanted to include that, I’ll explain it. Most of those posts were for myself, and I flipped them into a positive point to help someone else.

              So before you judge, criticize, and make assumptions, ask questions and get a back story.

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            • Stop talking to me, Amanda. You didn’t watch the links or read. You’re not prepared for this discussion at all. You’re not hearing or understanding me. That’s okay. The links are for you.

              Me and my time are not for you.

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            • You read Michelle Alexanders whole book and watched the hour and a half lecture with bell and jafa and the 20 minute ted talk already while also engaging in typing?

              LOL Amanda. NO need to lie. Be well, hon.

              Liked by 1 person

            • I read your comments, and watched a portion of the lecture, yes. So once again no I didn’t lie. You didn’t specify. My apologies for the miscommunication. Your assumptions yet again.

              I’m going to quit responding. You keep digging a hole for yourself and I told Clare I wasn’t going to anymore, so I’m done. Go about your life, and whatever you choose to do. I honestly wish you nothing but success in your endeavors. I will not bother you further, unless you bother me, and then we will be back to this game of a bitter back and forth conversation, where assumptions, judgments, ill will and criticism are everywhere.

              Good day.

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            • I never dug a hole. I don’t feel wrong or shamed or ignorant or out of line with you.

              We both told clare we were done and you both want the last word because you’re racists.

              Doing partial work on the links and book isn’t being at all interested or open, so you’re still lying to yourself.

              Liked by 1 person

            • BME- not racist, not really: it depends on motivation. The general use when I was working there was ensuring certain difficult to reach client groups were getting the benefit of the service, and taking up their state benefit entitlement. Not making blanket judgments, but noticing that people with certain characteristics might be more likely- not certain, likely- to have particular difficulties which we should address to give an equal service to all. I explain this because your ignorance may be because you are American: different culture, different emphases, less done by people co-operating en masse through the State.

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            • Nope… I’m in touch with the UK in a wonderful way, and in depth manner of learning but the term BME was indeed new to me and I don’t claim expertise so thanks for educating me further.

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            • Okay Clare, this is my beloved teacher so please if you visit this site… please be aware she is much better at communicating, teaching, and being respectful than I am. She’s also modest and humble yet firm and kick ass. I think you’ll like her immensely… actually.

              This is a link to Jeanne de Montbaston:

              https://readingmedievalbooks.wordpress.com

              Like

            • Clare, I didn’t say if you shouldn’t like or comment where you choose after giving you the link. I was entirely generous introducing you to Jeanne.

              I said you’d like her, but you do have to spend some time on her posts to gain an overall understanding… of what she’s about. I don’t give bad recommendations, Clare. No matter what you and I fought about.

              Respect and peace whatever you do. And I’m not going to follow you or bug you here. On Jeanne’s site would be a whole different thing, however. 🙂
              ever fearless,
              -Tabby

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            • Oh, I’m glad. That was just SCS, was it? I hope that blog, good though it is, is not the only place you go to learn of the UK. Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring.

              Does “fearless” mean you can misinterpret and judge falsely, without feeling bad about it?

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            • Hey btw Amanda, I told Clare I was going to respect her space and leave you both alone and so I’m not planning on holding this discussion any longer. It’s not fair to our hostess.

              Thanks for the back and forth today. We tried to clarify and that’s the best any of us can do.

              Peace to you. And one day at a time… sincerely.

              Liked by 1 person

        • You wrote a post on divorce so when you say,

          I don’t speak about divorce, because I
          don’t know about it, not because I judged anyone. I know it’s expensive, and that if at all possible should be avoided, because I like it when love succeeds, but no judgement.

          You’re a liar.

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  2. The world is still quite a bit in a “man’s” world and holding the banner of feminism and fight for equality is still met with a great deal of rejection and resistance so I agree with the part you say “express your feminism if that is what fulfills you”. At the end of the day life should be about how we feel within our own skin here and now.

    Like

  3. Pingback: Well it WAS going to be a good day | From One Crazy Life To Another

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