“Christians” and weddings

File:Blumenschmuck.JPGBarronelle Stutzman is a florist sued for refusing a wedding floral arrangements for a gay couple. I found out about her from this eejit, saying she is a Christian martyr. Other commenters act as if this is such tyranny, the US might as well not have made its declaration of independence. A better place to read of her is here.

Why do we have anti-discrimination law? Because celebrating diversity benefits the whole population. It brings people together by reducing false reasons to dislike others, and facilitates everyone reaching our full potential. Discrimination against people because of race or sexual orientation is a bad thing. It oppresses historically marginalised groups.

What is the Christian position?

There is diversity within Christian beliefs, but if you really have your heart set on the idea that Marriage Is Between One Man And One Woman, then there is no problem. Arrange the flowers. They will be at a party, not a wedding, where you believe the whole has no real significance and what the priest or pastor does has no effect.

In that post, there was a load of balderdash about the florist “participating” in the gay wedding. Sorry, but the partners “participate”, the pastor witnesses, the guests celebrate and the florist, well, arranges flowers. This is not “participating” in a wedding.

The eejit- “Apologetics and Agape”, forsooth, he has no understanding of the word– posts a video of the florist, protesting she prays for “courage File:Brautstrauß rote und weiße Rosen.JPGand knowledge and wisdom” while rejecting the Christian course. Don’t watch it. The most sickening part, for me, was the other “Christians” egging her on with cards, money and a Bible signed by lots of people.

Honestly, I would prefer a homophobe. “Ew! I can’t be in the same room as him! He puts his penis in anuses [because Gays couldn’t possibly make love any other way].” These “Christians” provoking that poor florist make Christ into a persecutor.

What would Jesus do? Remember that Jesus ate and drank with tax collectors and sinners, so Jesus would probably go along. “I have not come for the healthy, but the sick.” At Cana, Jesus made more than 120 gallons of wine, better than the “good wine” served before. That is a stonking party.

More seriously, Jesus saidDo good to those who hate you.” Jesus gave himself as our example, not turning away from his path, and not resisting though he could have called on twelve legions of angels. St Paul agrees.

Barronelle Stutzman, however, is backed by “Alliance Defending Freedom”, an extreme-Right organisation which supported the Arizona Bill.

The law is clear. There is a very long, exhaustive definition of “Any place of public resort, accommodation, assemblage, or amusement” which includes any service which could be bought or sold. I was fascinated to read that that definitions section states “Sexual orientation” means heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality, and gender expression or identity. As used in this definition, “gender expression or identity” means having or being perceived as having a gender identity, self-image, appearance, behavior, or expression, whether or not that gender identity, self-image, appearance, behavior, or expression is different from that traditionally associated with the sex assigned to that person at birth. Stutzman committed an “unfair practice”. Therefore she is liable.

On 18th February 2015, therefore, the county superior court granted summary judgment against Barronelle Stutzman. Her pleadings had not been legally relevant.

23 thoughts on ““Christians” and weddings

  1. It really makes my heart heavy when the ‘perfect christians’ come out with so much hatered of their fellow humans just because they dont like the way they love each other oh now that really is being a christian. I really feel sorry for these people who cannot see the love for the hatred which boils up inside them because of not reaching out to Christ and asking to be shown the real truth. I do hope that one day they will wake up feeling the true love of the Lord and ask forgiveness of the community that they were taught to hate by the miseducated.


  2. Simply awful – before I read this it never crossed my mind that a shop keeper could come up with such discrimination! I’m sure she would have heard and learned and somewhere signed to honour consumer rights etc oh boy would I throw the book of anti-discrimination at her – NO Mercy! Just awful – has nothing to do with true Christianity as far as I’m concerned but lots to do with the “rules people” inserted there


      • Well yes, but still one would think that if you set up a shop, or any business etc as in this case then you are bound by the rules that apply to anti-discrimination etc, she though is deaf and blind to those it seems and she has no place in being there to my view


  3. Hell, I’ll take money from anyone. Even Christians. But seriously, I/we don’t go round asking someone about their sex life or marital status or views about feminism/diet/politics before we quote for a job. I’m interested in whether they are reasonable people ie do I actually want to work for them and will pay on completion. If they won’t agree to my T&Cs then it’s a non-starter.

    We did a job for a couple of gays a few years back. They were two men who slept in the same bed, so I figured there was a good chance they were. So what? It’s just totally irrelevant. As is their marital status, or mine as far as that goes. Of more interest was the paper, which was Manuel Canovas, and although not my taste, it went up like a dream. I was very pleased with the job. Here’s a pic, or rather here’s a link to a post with the pic πŸ˜‰


    • Well, of course you wouldn’t refuse trade, you are a practical atheist with a tinge of agnosticism (I understand). I argue here that the Christian shouldn’t refuse trade with gay people either, because refusal is contrary to Jesus’s and Paul’s words. I will edit your comment to include your picture if you like.


      • If it will look pretty on the comments, then fine.

        It’s not just about the money and being practical. I wouldn’t dream of discriminating against people for their beliefs or actions. It is rude and disrespectful. The only discrimination I employ is based purely on the business transaction if I think they are messing me about.

        I take your point about the refusal being contrary although clearly it goes over the top of my head. But this is all about selective preferences, we read what we want into something, or we slant/skew the words to what we want to believe. And in this case, we want to believe in bigotry and not gay marriages. (when I say we I clearly mean them not you or I).

        I find it very frustrating. My simplistic mind says these people are homophobic (who cares where someone sticks their penis so long as it is consensual) and they are using their religion to justify their very nasty beliefs, rather than interpreting their religion generously in all its many colours.

        But as you know, I have no interest in it apart from the fact that it meddles in other peoples’ lives and shouldn’t.

        Your description is accurate about me. I have so little interest in religion that I can’t even be bothered to argue or say there is no god or gods. It’s just not part of my life. I’m def not on the belief side of the fence though πŸ˜€


        • Barronelle, the florist in question, says she is not homophobic because she has served the couple in question flowers over a period of years. Her refusal is on principle, resting on her high religious belief about the sanctity and meaning of marriage. An’t please you to answer, what would you say to that?


  4. I think she is looking for publicity. I also think she is a narrow-minded bigot. I think Mr Temple was extremely rude too with his comments replying to yours. What is sinful and disgusting about gay sex? Or lesbian sex? Or transgender sex? Or any sex really? We might all have different tastes about what we do, but so what? It’s not even as though men and women don’t engage in anal sex together.

    I don’t give two hoots about marriage and I’ve never been able to answer why I got married. But I did and it is useful for tax benefits and important things like that. I got married in a register office so it was a civil ceremony. Might as well have been a civil union as I’m only interested in the legal aspect anyway. In fact the religious fascists prob don’t consider me married as I didn’t do it in a pretty temple with a long white frock. I have however, been faithful to the person I married nearly 29 years ago, and apart from procreating, have probably met all the requirements for a correct religious ‘marriage’. I know one hell of a lot of heterosexual Christians who can’t say that.

    You are correct in that she is not participating. I can acknowledge her point of view but I think it is sheer hypocrisy given that she has been selling them flowers for nine years or so. She could have said she was too busy – oh but wait – she wouldn’t have got the publicity for the fundamental Christian right-wing would she? She could have gone on holiday. She could have found a million excuses not to do it, but no, she had to come right out with that ‘gay marriage isn’t what Jesus wants’ crap.

    Don’t wind me up Clare πŸ˜€


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