Those bible verses in full

File:Genesis-gersom-ben-mose-soncin.jpgIf a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own headsLeviticus 20.13. Oh my God they want us dead. Seriously, guys, do you really read that and want to make arguments from it? If so, what do you think of “Exposing the source of a woman’s flow”, v18?

About six Bible passages are cited against gay people. Have a look at the poverty of homophobic arguments:

Genesis 19 has all the men of the city of Sodom, both young and old, surrounding Lot’s house and shouting, Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them. Well, I know gay bars can be a bit rowdy, but one rarely sees gang rape there. In my limited experience, that is, please correct me if you know better.

Romans 1. Paul notes that Rome is filled with temples, and reasons that the inhabitants have clearly seen the nature of God. But instead they worship images, v23. Therefore God gave them over to shameful lusts. Paul is talking about idol worshippers, not gay people. Do read on to chapter 2, though: at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Paul evidently knew that the most vitriolic homophobes are the ones who are suppressing their own sexuality. 

For 1 Timothy 1 we have to delve into the Greek. We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practising homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers… first face that looks like pseudo-Paul arguing like the homophobes: “homosexuality, paedophilia and bestiality”, they say, as if these things were comparable. Instead, he uses the words pornoi, arsenokoitai, and andrapodistes, the third word meaning slave traders or kidnappers. What have slave-traders to do with gay sex? Well, they enslaved men to use as prostitutes, much as Moldovan women are enslaved now. Pornos derives from the verb pernemi, to sell, and it refers to those who sell sex. Arsenokoitai, male-bedders, is a rare word, but appears to mean those who use the male prostitutes.

Lastly, 1 Corinthians 6. Neither…men who have sex with men[a]nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

That footnote: The words men who have sex with men translate two Greek words that refer to the passive and active participants in homosexual acts, say the editors, falsely. Instead, they translate arsenokoitai and malakoi: prostitution again.

Lastly, a Biblical argument of equal validity to the arguments against gay marriage. A Friend in company began to talk in support of the slave-trade, and said the negroes were understood to be the offspring of Cain, their blackness being the mark which God set upon him after he murdered Abel his brother; that it was the design of Providence they should be slaves. I am mortified that “Friend” here means Quaker: this is John Woolman’s journal. See page 213 for Woolman’s refutation, and also the argument from Ham.

16 thoughts on “Those bible verses in full

  1. Too bad you only want to listen to those who denigrate the Word of God because it condemns their evil practices. The Bible clearly speaks out against the sin of homosexuality, just like it does for every other sin. As a matter of fact, homosexuality is a curse from God upon those who exchange the truth of God, the Bible, for the lie, man’s ungodly opinions. …who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. Romans 1:25-27 Embracing that sinful life will lead to untold sorrow and ultimately eternal destruction in hell. You should chose life through repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. God bless you.


    • Welcome, Eliza, and thank you for commenting.

      I had a look at that post. Your heading, holdingforthhisword, is unattractive. You can easily change it to “Holding forth his word” if you go to Settings-General from your dashboard: it is the first box to fill in. You could make your blog title anything you like.

      Your writing would be more readable if you broke it down into paragraphs, and followed a logical structure. But your false ideas have been refuted by the Holy Spirit in the power of Christ, and are fading away.


      • Thank you for the welcome and you are welcome. I noticed that as you commented on the passages concerning homosexuality in the Scriptures that you don’t really have a very clear understanding of the Bible. John says in the gospel of John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. This is the truth that upholds God’s law that homosexuality is sin, but the grace that God redeems sinners through His Son Jesus Christ as seen in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites. nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. This is the Holy Spirit who regenerates sinners and makes them brand new so they no longer desire to sin and break God’s Holy law. The spirit you refer to is the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfillling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. The god you worship, who says your sin is acceptable to him, is the god who will be cast into the lake of fire for all eternity by my God Almighty. The truth will never be refuted by the Holy Spirit Who wrote it. Those who oppose His Word indicate they do not belong to God and are dead in their trespasses and sins and under God’s just wrath. I urge you to repent of your sin and place put your faith in Jesus Christ Who is willing to forgive you and to give you eternal life.
        Based upon you promotion of the homosexual agenda under the guise of spirituality this sums you up perfectly: who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them. Romans 1:32
        Flee the wrath of God and believe in the Savior.


        • Oh, please use paragraphs. It would be good if you put your bible quotations in quotes. You ignore the Greek, as interpreted in my post: therefore it appears you find it unanswerable, except by mere assertion.

          I find Nicole Moseley‘s answer to your idiotic threats of “eternal destruction in Hell” useful. It appears you came from Tiffani‘s post: as I explained to her, the Bible is full of contradictions. Nicole finds these quotes:

          “This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance. For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, Who is the Savior of ALL MEN, especially of those who believe. These things command and teach.” (1 Tim. 4:9-11)

          “Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.” (Romans 5:18)

          “Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.” (Acts 3:21)

          ” For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.” (Colossians 1:19-20)

          “Love NEVER fails.” (1 Cor. 13:8)

          “At the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of those in heaven, and those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.” (Phil. 2:10:11)

          Jesus “is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.” (1 John 2:2)

          “The Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.” Does Jesus fail to save some or most of the world?

          “Jesus, was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for EVERYONE.” (Heb. 2:9)

          With God NOTHING is impossible.” (Luke 1:37) This goes against the Arminian idea that God fails to save some or most due to their free will.

          The Gospel is “good tidings of great joy will be to ALL people.” (Luke 2:10) How can it be great joy to all people if some or most will suffer eternal torment or separation from God?

          “The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to ALL MEN.” (Titus 2:11)

          “Mercy shall TRIUMPH OVER (exalt over) judgment.” (James 2:13)

          “Where sin abounded, grace abounded much more.” (Rom. 5:20)

          “ALL nations whom God has made will come and worship before Him” (Psalm 86:9)

          God’s “mercy endures forever.” (1 Chron. 16:34)

          Jesus “And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” (John 12:32)

          Nicole writes, There are many, many more quotes if you search the web.

          I think for most people, it comes down to fear. The threat of a possible eternal damnation keeps them “believers in God,” or at least professing it so that they won’t face such horror. Tradition says this is true (not the bible in its original form). But does God want to win people with love or fear? People may recite “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,” But this is only the beginning.

          “For God has not given us a spirit of fear and timidity, but of power, love, and self-discipline.” (2 Timothy 1:7)

          Perfect love driveth out all fear, Eliza. You will not be able to keep those you oppress in fear forever. Perhaps even you will shake off your own oppression.


  2. Ah the lie of universal salvation. But God is not mocked He will and does hold all accountable.

    Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. For our God is a consuming fire.

    Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God.” That is your demise.

    …as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.

    Just because you quote Scripture doesn’t mean you know it or know Jesus Christ the author of Scripture. There are just as many, if not more verses, which warn of eternal judgment and damnation to those who reject the truth and have pleasure in unrighteousness.

    …and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

    Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

    We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one. And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

    Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

    The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth…

    And He said to them, “You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”

    “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because He has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.

    “The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

    But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become the children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ “But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, not can those from there pass to us.’ “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ “Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ “And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ “But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.'”

    I am afraid that is the situation for yourself and those who follow you. You take verses out of context to twist the truth. I quoted Scripture in context to reveal the truth. Since you know the Word of God so well, and of course, the Greek, I am sure you won’t have any trouble locating these verses in the Bible.


    • Thank you for using paragraphs.

      I have a question for you, and if you answer it honestly there might be some point in continuing this dialogue. You say, Embracing that sinful life will lead to untold sorrow and ultimately eternal destruction in hell.

      How do you feel about that?


  3. My feelings? Sorrow and distress that so many are deceived and refuse to embrace the truth of what God says in His Word the Bible. Discouragement that so many believe the lie and refuse to believe the truth that they might be saved. However, this is what is revealed by Christ Himself in the Scriptures, that many would go the broad way that leads to destruction and few would go the narrow way that leads to life. But that knowledge in no way comforts me, although it does let me know that what I see is what He said.

    Revelation 10:8-11 Then the voice which I heard from heaven spoke to me again and said, “Go, take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel who stands on the sea and on the earth.” So I went to the angel and said to him, “Give me the little book.” And he said to me, “Take and eat it; and it will make your stomach bitter, but it will be as sweet as honey in your mouth.” Then I took the little book out of the angel’s hand and ate it, and it was as sweet as honey i my mouth. But when I had eaten it, my stomach became bitter. And he said to me, “You must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, tongues, and kings.”

    Ezekiel 3:1-11 Moreover He said to me, “Son of man, eat what you find; eat this scroll, and go, speak to the house of Israel.” So I opened my mouth, and He caused me to eat the scroll. And He said to me,”Son of man, feed you belly, and fill your stomach with this scroll that I give you.” So I ate, and it was in my mouth like honey in sweetness. Then He said to me: “Son of man, go to the house of Israel and speak with My words to them. For you are not sent to a people of unfamiliar speech and hard language, but to the house of Israel, not to many people of unfamiliar speech and of hard language, whose words you cannot understand. Surely,had I sent you to them, they would have listened to you. But the house of Israel will not listen to you, because they will not listen to Me; for all the house of Israel are impudent and hardhearted. Behold, I have made your face strong against their faces, and your forehead strong against their foreheads. Like adamant stone, harder than flint, I have made your forehead; do not be afraid of them, nor be dismayed at their looks, though they are a rebellious house.” Moreover He said to me; “Son of man, receive into your heart all My words that I speak to you, and hear with your ears. And go, get to the captives, to the children of your people, and speak to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God,’ whether they hear, or whether they refuse.'”

    Jeremiah 15:16 Your words were found, and I ate them, And Your word was to me the joy and rejoicing of my heart; For I am called by Your name, O Lord God of hosts.

    I rejoice in the Word of God, for He has declared to me His salvation through Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior. I sorrow over those who refuse to heed His warning and refuse to repent and believe the gospel, that Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins, that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day for our justification, but only for those who repent and believe.


    • Mmm. Distress, and discouragement. What you claim is “good news” really is horrible.

      Matthew and John is an unusual combination for parallel texts, but have a look at these:

      Mt 13:15 They have shut their eyes so that they might not see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.’

      John 12:40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes, nor understand with their hearts, nor turn–and I would heal them.”

      Both are quoting Isaiah 6:10. God is doing this. You look at them, and wonder, why do they screw up that badly? God must be doing it. God moving in a mysterious way, so that the gay man may be beaten by his partner, catch AIDS, and still go to Hell at the end of it for not repenting.

      Your God is a sadistic bastard. My God tries to make things better. Yours might too, but then he goes and spoils it all: all the casualties, all the ones we could not save, get burned. Or frozen, or whatever, Dante’s punishments have a poetic justice to them.

      Do you feel happy to be saved, or any sympathy at all with those now dead, whose judgment is fixed? One, perhaps, going to Hell? Any sympathy at all with that lost soul? Or, Billions, who have heard of Christ but not followed what you think is his path?


  4. God is sovereign and your description of the evil perpetrated by one homosexual against another is the reason why God judges sin and condemns sinners. You assume the person being beaten is somehow innocent of sin, yet he is in a homosexual relationship which God declares as sinful. The mercy of God is manifest in that He sent His Son Jesus Christ to redeem us from our sins and to give us eternal life. These men could have repented and put their faith in Jesus Christ, but refused to because they loved their sin even with its attendant misery. You want to know what real evil is, it is the Jews of Christ’s day rejecting their Messiah and having a murderer and insurrectionist released to them instead. It is our hard hearts and dark minds that cannot and will not let the light of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ shine in so that we see God for who He is and fall at His feet to worship Him. It is making up a god to our own liking who is weak and miserable and winks at evil. Your god is a creation of your mind, a figment of your imagination that cannot do good or evil Your god doesn’t exist. God is all powerful, wise merciful and gracious as can be seen by the fact that He doesn’t just blast this planet with all of its evil to smithereens, but is longsuffering not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. Yes, God does harden the heart of the unbelievers, but if you look at it in the context of the entire Scriptures, something you must intensely dislike, you would see that these Jews had been visited by God in many amazing and mighty ways, and yet they still preferred their false gods. He had warned them long and often, and yet they killed the prophets and refused to repent. They had a history of God in their midst, yet they rejected Him. So when Jesus Christ came to minister the gospel to them, after millennia of rejecting the God who loved them, their default position, they rejected Christ, with God confirming their sinful, willful, rejection of Jesus, His Son, by hardening their hearts. You might have a greater understanding of God, who He is and what He does, if you read the whole of Scripture and stopped picking verses out of context to support your sinful rejection of Him. Your fight isn’t with me, it is with God and you are going to lose. I will speak out for the truth in the hope that God in His mercy and grace will bring sinners to repentance by the proclamation of the gospel by the sharing of God’s Word. Picking and choosing verses given to you by unbelievers will only lead you to greater darkness and grosser sin. Try reading the Bible and asking God who wrote it to enlighten your mind so that you might come to the knowledge of the truth and so be saved.

    …and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is give by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness…2 Timothy 3:15-16


    • Well spotted. “From childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures”, you write: I have known the Bible (New Testament as well) from childhood, began reading commentaries at university, have read the whole NT with two different series of commentaries, the OT with one, and read the whole without commentaries several times. I know God immediately.

      God is merciful, you say, because he does not blast the planet to smithereens- which would be cruel, don’t you think, to the elephants, and the flies. You have an impoverished idea of God’s mercy, and an overweening concept of Satan’s power. The devil is not as powerful as you suppose.

      Try to translate that “sorrow and distress” into empathy, for no-one is wilfully self-destructive. All human behaviour has a positive intent. That gay man does not stay in his relationship because he seeks out wickedness, but because it is the best Good he can find. I did not assume anyone was sinless, but that his failures and successes are human.

      Together we learn what is better. Slavery is now unlawful, having been an Institution for centuries. God is in this human process. God brings forth the rights of gay people, now, even in the US. Scott Lively has failed, so far, in his weaseling attempts to get away with his wrongdoing. God is in all this progress. God brings forth his people.

      Your false image is that God saves a tiny proportion of humanity. You denigrate God’s mercy, wisdom, justice and power.


  5. For being well versed in the Scriptures you fail to realize that God is in the business of bringing doom and destruction, why else would Jesus Christ have to die for us? So we could find our higher selves? Please! God’s Word is clear that we are all corrupt through and through, which is why we need a Savior. If you didn’t see that as you studied God’s Word maybe it is because you don’t have the Holy Spirit to guide you into all truth. If you don’t have the Holy Spirit to guide you into all truth then you are not saved, you do not belong to God. Do you think that God’s mercy, love and peace balance His justice, judgment and wrath? He is perfect in all His attributes and doesn’t need to have any of His attributes to balance the others! When He judges He is perfect! When He executes His wrath He is righteous! When He displays His justice He is glorified! Pouring forth His wrath brings Him just as much glory as blessing us with His mercy, grace and love. He is not beholden to us, He owes us nothing, and it is because of His goodness that He chooses not to destroy us in our wickedness. As with all liberals, you lack real world understanding which perverts your grasp of the basic concepts of goodness and evil. God is not the Author of sin and does not confirm us in our sin. That is blasphemy! He may leave us in our sin as just judgment, but His desire is to redeem us from our sin. He wants to free us from the helpless enslavement to sin through the power of the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead and the victory that He gives us over sin. He graciously holds forth His mercy and grace through His Son Jesus Christ, but we reject His loving offer because that is our default position because we are sinners. You, in your rejection of the grace of God that He desires to give us through repentance from sin, belief in the truth and faith in His Son Jesus Christ, are only doing what you have the capacity to do. Even yet, God in His mercy and grace can save you.


    • Thank you for your excellent question. Why would Jesus have to die for us? Certainly not because “God is in the business of bringing doom and destruction” because God isn’t. Jesus died to propitiate the wrath of Man, not of God.

      Jesus was a challenge to the Roman empire and to the Jewish elite. He evoked violent reactions: “They picked up stones to stone him”. He refused to run away from that violent human reaction, even unto death. He gave us the example of non-resistance.

      Jesus showed us the way out of your vile Us and Them, With us or against us, world view, into seeing that everyone is indeed our neighbour. All humanity is in this together- gay and straight, Communist and capitalist, poor and rich- and God is in it with us.

      I am sorry that your comment was spammed twice before. I check my spam filter at least daily, and recognise your comments are not spam.


  6. Thank you for that kind consideration. I didn’t think it was you, but my comments were being generally designated as spam, something that has happened before and not just to me. Anyway, throughout the Old Testament God’s prophets proclaimed the day of the Lord as being a day of darkness and gloom because of the people’s sin.

    Amos 5:10-12 They hate the one who rebukes in the gate, And they abhor the one who speaks uprightly, Therefore, because you tread down the poor and take grain taxes from him, Though you have built houses of hewn stone, yet you shall not dwell in them; You have planted pleasant vineyards, But you shall not drink wine from them. For I know your manifold transgressions And your mighty sins: Afflicting the just and taking bribes; Diverting the poor from justice at the gate. Therefore the prudent keep silent at that time, For it is an evil time. Seek good and not evil, That you may live; So the Lord God of hosts will be with you, As you have spoken. Hate evil, love good; Establish justice in the gate. It may be that the Lord God of hosts Will be gracious to the remnant of Joseph.

    Joel 1:15-16 Alas for the day! For the day of the Lord is at hand; It shall come as destruction from the Almighty. Is not the food cut off before our eyes, Joy and gladness from the house of our God?

    Amos 5:18-20 Woe to you who desire the day of the Lord! For what good is the day of the Lord to you? It will be darkness, and not light. It will be as though a man fled from a lion, And a bear met him! Or as though he went into the house, leaned his hand on the wall, And a serpent bit him! Is not the day of the Lord darkness, and not light? Is it not very dark, with no brightness in it?

    Contrasted with His judgment was the promise of His redemption of His purchased possession through the blood of Jesus Christ, which He shed on the cross when He took the full punishment for our sins. Hallelujah! The wrath of God was satisfied by that sacrifice of God Himself upon the cross for us. If you read Isaiah 53 you will see prophesy of the fulfillment of the Old Testament system of sacrifice, Jesus the Lamb of God Who takes away the sins of the world!

    Isaiah 53:5-6 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

    Isaiah 53:11-12 He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities. Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, And He shall divide the spoil with the strong; Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors.

    Jesus Christ, God the Son of God, came to this earth in fulfillment of multiple prophesies throughout the Old Testament to finish the work that God the Father had given to Him to accomplish for His glory and our salvation. Jesus Christ, born of the virgin Mary, being fully God and fully man, fulfilled the law of God living a holy righteous life. He was subjected to religious persecution, rejection, a mockery of a trial, betrayal by His own nation, and execution on the cross by the Romans all by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God.

    Acts 2:23-24 “Him being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it.

    Jesus Christ was crucified for our sins, buried, and rose again from the dead for our justification.

    1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you-unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the Scriptures

    Romans 5:8-10 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be save by His life.

    He lived a life that we could never live, and He died a death that we don’t have to die, if we believe what the Bible tells us about Him. God’s Word gives us the truth about Christ Jesus and His work on our behalf. Praise God, I am saved by belief in Him, my glorious Lord and Savior.


    • I have been spammed too, in the past: last year it took four months to get my comments allowed.

      Amos was a prophet of the Northern Kingdom, in the reign of the second Jeroboam, in the 8th century BC. 25 years after Jeroboam’s death, the Assyrians “swept down like a wolf on the fold” and wiped out Israel.

      I tend to mock Americans blaming hurricanes on homosexuality, but Joel blames a locust plague on God, calling it judgment. I found his line, “Beat your ploughshares into swords, and your pruning hooks into spears” (3:10) striking. He wrote when Judah was small and surrounded by great enemies, before it was conquered by Babylon.

      For these peasants, the Day of the Lord, when the world turned upside down, could come at any time.

      I love Isaiah 53.

      “Jesus Christ was crucified for our sins”- indeed, as I explained in my previous comment. I heard Richard Holloway, former Bishop of Edinburgh, speak on that, and thought- what about the letter to Hebrews, it is Sacrifice? William Barclay explains the difference: God so loved the world that he gave his only son- John 3.16. It is more complex than angry God and sacrifice buying the anger off.

      “For” here means “for the sake of” or “on behalf of” and not “instead of”. Jesus gave himself up as an offering and sacrifice for us, Ephesians 5:2. “This cup is the new covenant in my blood” 1 Cor 11:25: Barclay says that the Greek “en” translates the Hebrew “be”, “at the price of”: the new covenant is made possible by Jesus’ death. When we examine the evidence of the New Testament we find that the evidence that the death of Jesus was in substitution for us is almost non-existent. Jesus died for us, for our sake. If Jesus had stopped before the Cross, it would have meant that there was some point beyond which the love of God did not go, but because Jesus, having loved men, loved them to the end, it means that there is nothing which can alter the love of God.

      Love for the outcast, for the sinner, and for the ones who murdered him.


  7. So you are again denying what the Scriptures clearly teach, that Jesus Christ died in our stead, taking the punishment that we deserve, appeasing the wrath of God on our behalf as the propitiation for our sins. Propitiation means to appease the wrath of the offended party and to be reconciled to them. In this case, God Himself provided the propitiation for our sins, satisfying His wrath, taking away our sins, and reconciling us to Himself through the sacrifice of His Son Jesus Christ who shed His blood so our sins could be forgiven and we could be reconciled to God through faith in Jesus Christ.

    1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

    Romans 3:21-26 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For their is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

    Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, But a body You have prepared for Me. In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You had no pleasure. Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come-In the volume of the Book it is written of Me-To do Your will, O God.'” Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting until His enemies are made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin. Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is His flesh, and having a High Priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in the full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witness. (Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and all the congregation. They put him under guard. because it had not been explained what should be done to him. Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36) Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews 10:5-31

    It is clear from the Scriptures, not from some heretical liberal, that Jesus Christ is the sacrifice for our sins, and if we reject the provision for our forgiveness that He provides, then we are the enemies of God and will be judged without mercy. To reject the truth of the Word of God and embrace the lies of men places you under God’s wrath. Yes, God does show His love to us, but He also shows His wrath…

    For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. Romans 1:18-19

    His love is reserved for those who believe in His Son Jesus Christ and receive Him as their Lord and Savior.

    But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become the children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:12-13

    Only those who repent and believe what the Bible tells us about Jesus Christ, so coming to Him by faith, are born again and have eternal life. Those who belong to God the Father have the indwelling Holy Spirit, know the truth and live for His glory. Those who reject biblical repentance and faith in Christ Jesus are still under the wrath of God and so bound for hell. Any other interpretation of the Scriptures that rejects what God has clearly said is a lie and from the evil one. Repent and believe the gospel for your salvation.


    • Thank you for quoting 1 John. Propitiation for the sins of the whole world. More on my side than yours, I think, keeping everyone out of Hell.

      As I have explained before, that “for”- for our sake, not instead of us.

      This bores me. I have opened to you the scriptures, clearly explaining, and you persist with your assertion of your nasty little idea, that the great majority of people go to Hell. It binds you to your sect, and you cannot bear it being challenged. I hope that your heart will open to God, and you will cease asserting such silliness.

      Liked by 1 person

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