Original sin

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/BoschDeathOfTheReprobate.jpgThe loathing of Evangelicals for gay people is not some add-on which can easily be amputated leaving creative service of God. It sits at the heart of all that is wrong with their Christianity.

Consider the comments here. Michelle Lesley summarises her doctrine beautifully: You’ve [sinned]. So have I. So has everybody else. The issue is that we are all -homosexual and heterosexual- sinners who must admit that we have offended a holy God, realize that there is no way we can appease Him on our own, and throw ourselves on His mercy for the forgiveness of our sin. We all sin, God must punish us, God sacrifices Jesus to himself for our sin. To benefit from that sacrifice, we turn to Christ. We are then justified. We then fit ourselves to God’s commands, including that most important one about no gay sex. If we do not so fit ourselves, then we obviously did not really turn to Christ or get saved in the first place.

It is not just Love that is perverted in us, in her view. It is all human instincts, which lead us to sin. We are, unsaved, monstrous Ids, with no superego to hold us back. But that does not fit with human beings as we observe them. Atheists and Hindus are good people.

It is more horrifying that she does not know whether she was saved or regenerated when she was 12, though she went to church. She thinks it does not matter, but it does, for it matters to other children like she was- is there a mean God with a get-out clause- “No, not committed enough- damn her” or not? Again, that does not fit with the God we observe: loving and creative. Of course you can ascribe other characteristics to God, as Michelle would- righteous, or wrathful- but that takes away from the Love.

(Doesn’t. Does. Does Not. Does Too. I doubt I would persuade her.)

She could cite screeds of St Paul to justify her position, before she turns sorrowfully from me, and I cite just one verse: by their fruits shall ye know them. The fruits of Michelle’s way are voluntary commitment to the torture of ex-gay programmes, rejection, bullying, despair and suicide: and people leaving the Church.

I commented on some ridiculous priest’s blog, and he said my striving for the Organismic Self showed I was far from the Gospel. So the Catholics are as bad as the Evangelicals. I wonder what experience they have of conscience, or the promptings of love and truth in their hearts. I seek a Biblical Christianity which recognises the goodness of creation. Only then can anyone believe in a Loving God.

11 thoughts on “Original sin

  1. I just want to thank you for all the interesting blogs you dig up, and the comments you leave on them! I’m looking forward to hearing if Michelle also believes women talking in churches and divorced people remarrying are also sins that Obama should be publicly denouncing.


    • You are welcome. Divorced people remarrying is “adultery” according to Jesus as quoted by Mark, with a get-out, in Matthew only, that remarriage after divorce for adultery is not adultery. It is a continuing state of adultery, of equivalent sin-level to two gay people in a permanent relationship. So, condemning gay people while welcoming divorced people is hypocrisy. And it is a recognition of the “imperfection” of human beings, that we continually need another chance, and acceptance of people as we are not as some might like us to be- and so a necessary step towards accepting gay people too. So one generation welcomes the divorced, the next generation welcomes the gay. I was shocked to see someone judging a single parent- that would be one “moment of sin” with a permanent reminder, different from the remarried people.


  2. Yes, Christianity is often horribly judgmental. And it’s always the people with the most difficult lives that bear the brunt of the scorn. Very sad. I must say that I also find the notion of and emphasis on ‘sin’ disturbing, but that’s a whole other post yet to be formulated ….


    • James 1:27: Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

      Judge only myself, and support others- Launcelot’s religion is very beautiful.


  3. I know you’re mad and rightly so, but try not isolate dialogue until you know no progress can be made. Grouping people and cutting them off from you isolates them from the awesomeness that you are and prevents them from being faced with your undeniable humanity.


  4. According to Wiki “Sin can also be viewed as anything within individuals that violates the ideal relationship between them and God”. That does not mean that people have to be particularly nasty to be considered sinful. “We are all sinners” means we cannot by our own effort get back into a right relationship with God. And atheists and Hindus are only good in human terms. They are not good in relation to the holy God of the Bible. Neither is anyone else.

    You said characteristics such as righteousness and wrath can be ascribed to God (and the Bible clearly says they are) but then immediately discount those attributes because “that takes away from the Love”. To get a God who is ONLY love, you have throw out the righteous, wrathful God of the old testament and also deny any purpose for the crucifixion.

    You are far from the Gospel.


    • Jesus could have called down armies from Heaven- but did not resist. He did not turn aside, either. He took the wrath of humanity, not of God, on himself. That is the point of the crucifixion, the example of love and sacrifice.

      We disagree about what the Gospel is, Joe, but you are welcome here. Thank you for commenting.


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