A gay debate

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-26055-0017%2C_Dresden%2C_Zwinger%2C_Statue_Mephistopheles.jpgGay, of course, in the archaic sense of joyous, rather than the ancient sense of bent, not-straight.

I commented on the blog of some vile queerbasher or other,

Hello Cliff. I think you are a bad pastor, because you preach in this way against gay people. You are the one driving gay people out of the church, promoting bullying, and driving gay people to suicide. Shame on you.

And- I want to promote dialogue across the Church. I am a Christian.

“Like Jesus, we shall be misunderstood”, you say. Remember the Pharisee who went to the Temple to pray- “Thank God I am not like this publican”. What did Jesus say?

No, homosexuality is not the “sin” “unnaturally pushed on our culture”. Adultery is. You are a pastor. Have you ever had a couple in your church, on their second marriage? Read Mark’s Gospel: that is adultery. Yet you do not care about it, because it is the sin you sympathise with. Yet even the gay people who buy the bullshit you peddle, and imagine they have to be celibate- contrary to the Bible, which says “it is not good for the man to be alone”- become uncomfortable in your church, and leave.

You can, if you wish, read articles delving into the Greek Hebrew and Aramaic, and finding that only specific acts of gay lovemaking are condemned. For http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5e/Mephistopheles_by_Antokolsky.jpgexample, Romans 1 condemns sex during idol worship, in Rome in the first century, notably in the worship of Cybele. Yet you ignore them. You do not have ears to hear.

Knockabout stuff. He replied, thanks! You helped make my point! Which merely as repartee is a brilliant answer. No-one on whose blog I have posted similar has been able to answer the adultery point. Better to ignore it.

I am not hypocritical in my statement on adultery. I think often a couple join together in haste, and couples grow apart: it is not always wrong to split, and I would not stop them from splicing again, though sometimes I feel queasy about it. But I am not the one who claims to live by the Bible. I am pointing out his hypocrisy. Of course he has “adulterers”, so defined, in his church.

I can “make a case” for the virtue of my commenting in this way. I confront the ones who torture gay people with words. I demonstrate to them that there is another way, a Christian way, of responding to gay people.

And, perhaps, I am talking to myself. I assure myself that I am not doing wrong by fulfilling my God-given nature, despite what all these “Christians” think. Writing such things helps me to think them through. This comment is the latest of many, during which I have honed my rhetoric, and increased my detestation for such abominable lies. Reading it, it occurred to me that I might have done all I need, interacting with such slime, and can move on.

I exposed myself to such devilish hatred, in order to inoculate myself against it. Perhaps I have done so. Reading more of it gives it more importance than it deserves.

12 thoughts on “A gay debate

  1. I’m ashamed to say I read that blog. Uh.
    Don’t inoculate yourself. You are a strong individual. But to not experience the hurt every time is to make yourself immune to it. Show your humanity by being hurt in the hopes that it can change hearts. Jesus, Gandhi, Mandela they each allowed themselves to be hurt for the right cause and in their ability to show pain each time true change occurred. In that pain, we can see your humanity. And to acknowledge humanity is to prevent dehumanization that allows such hate.


    • I do not want not to feel the anger, but I do not want to be overwhelmed by it. Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu created the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, bringing forgiveness, a courageous act of the strong against the weak and finally defeated oppressor. That needs strength I wish to develop.

      I am happy you read that blog. That is the way to keep a dialogue going.


  2. I’ve spent some time thinking about Scripture’s take on remarried people, and it being seen as adultery. It’s hard to wrap our minds around in today’s culture. I wonder if the culture was reversed–if gay couples were accepted in the church, and remarried divorcees not, what would the debate would look like.

    I do wonder, adultery a continual state for these couples? Or is the union tarnished by adultery–but then redeemed and “washed clean” in the eyes of God.

    Regardless, we all fall short of God’s ideal for relationships. Thank goodness for the conviction of the Holy Spirit. And grace for when we lack the wisdom to know what is right.


    • Welcome, Rainbow. Two rainbows commenting- Rainbow, meet Rainbow!

      Jesus also said, if a man looks at a woman with lust he has committed adultery with her in his heart. I would welcome such couples into a church. But I am not the one with that peculiar attitude to Scripture which expels gay couples. I think that legalist attitude is deeply hypocritical if it does not answer your wondering, yes. But then, I want to point out the hypocrisy as a way of getting them to admit gay couples, not to exclude the remarried.

      I felt my Anglican vicar could not bear me to worship God at his church, expressing myself female. And so I went to the Quakers, and a year later just before going full time female, stopping pretending to be a man at work- I became a member. I had found a church to support me. I felt God led me in greater self-understanding, leading to this point. God may indeed stop you being gay, but I think it unlikely.


  3. Clare Flourish, I don’t know about you, however, I find it absurd that debates go on about same sex marriage and gay rights. You should not have a law that tells you that you cannot marry a member of the same sex if you want to. What are your thoughts?


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